Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. Understanding Electrical Supplies and Controls. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Willoughby, Ohio - the home of the CP & E RR. First, a few general notes about choosing wire. In either case, however, voltage and amperage draw is low and peak for only brief periods. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Price Received. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Price Received. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. Why Sign In? You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Classic cars have a 5 or 6 as their second digit [25051, 16686, etc]. Its a good transformer. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. The good news is, Lionel made a lot of good transformers over the years. OTTS Founder Are you looking for a product or serviceif so, then read this BEFORE you post! Find 500+ popular train rides, museums, and railroad vacation destinations in the U.S and Canada! What size Lionel transformer do I need? As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. Lionel Trains Pocket Price Guide 1901-2022. Some great beginner accessories are the #12052 Fastrack Highway Signal set, which is a set of highway signals that blink as the train goes by. As an example, look at these two cars closely: While both are gondola cars and run on O Gauge track, note how the car on the left is much longer than the one on the right. the amount of track is not what is important here. Effort. Another classic is the Automatic Gateman. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! It also has an optional bell sound that can be turned on and off. Like tankist stated.It's only running multiple engines that I run into issues. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month, WELCOME TO THE FORUM Mike!! Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller You can also run Lionel TMCC/Legacy Command Engines using the MTH DCS system with the addition of a Lionel command base and an additional cable. Checklist Transformer Size Calculator When sizing a transformer, you need to know the kilovolt-amps (KVA) that your machine requires. Add a PW dual motor F3 (4 amps) with 5 lighted cars (another 10 bulbs - 1 amp) and you are cooking (9 amps). If you have to ask,your needs are a lot more modest than that. Lionel Postwar 1033 Transformer Watch on Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! Solid wire is preferable as it is much easier to solder to the rails. Mark. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. To participate you must either login or register for an account. For many first-time train buyers, once the initial excitement of setting up the train and watching it run has passed, the desire to make it do more usually begins. So far, I haven't seen any way to do this except to take amp measurements or just wing it and see how hot your transformer gets. The smaller of the two is #12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. I justhave a very basic 027 set (guessin' mid 80's?). And again regardless of scale or manufacturer, switch machines of these two types will have similar needs and performance. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. As your layout grows beyond the basic oval of track that comes with most starter sets, a good power distribution network is essential to getting consistent performance from your train all the way around. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Lionel Trains|MTH Train|Lionel Train Sets| HO model Trains| G Scale|Dept 56 As the train goes by, the door to the shed opens and a figure pops out, and once the train has passed the figure re-enters the building and the door shuts. The fraction of your transformer's power lost in the track will therefore be well under 10 percent, since it is proportional to the voltage drop. All Lionel transformer comparisons should include the common 1033, RW, LW, KW and ZW transformers. Sell Your Trains Using a Live Auction House. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. Take the hint. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. Keeping in mind that I will likely continue to add to the layout as my addiction develops! If you're experiencing problems with your wiring due to humidity, for example, you are going to face even greater issues with the trains and tracks themselves. * NOTE: We do not recommend loading a transformer above 80% of its KVA rating. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. Within that range, it is generally recommended to go for the most robust power supply possible. Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Needless to say the "Spring into Spring" train show very nearly became unsprung! 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. Is there anyway of saying how much track it will power? Three conductor wire is common for household use. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. I suggest that you proactively lay an 10-2 AWG NM cable (or at least 12-2) along the track and tap into it as needed to keep the voltage up. At auction, Lionel train sets, pieces, and accessories can sell for a few hundred dollars or for a few thousand dollars, depending on the rarity and condition of the piece. Mike to the forum. Most command systems use a constant AC power supply, and trains are controlled by impulses sent through the rails. This set also includes an uncoupling track section, which will disconnect cars from one another at the touch of a button, and a bumper, which keeps cars from rolling off the end of the track. We're sorry. If you have time, check out the "Coffee Pot". The transition section (#12040) allows you to connect conventional O Gauge track to FasTrack. Unless I'm all wet it sounded like there are somecompatibilityissues with certain locomotives versus manufacturer's transformer output wave forms. And both of them give more wattage per handle than a KW or ZW. Just not quite as much. Trainz carries a variety of books that build upon the information listed above. What about removing flanges from diesel wheels? A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. The article you suggest would be a daunting task, as you'd have to gather virtually every known locomotive and transformer! Here at Trainz, we carry all of the products you will need to go from a starter set to a miniature railroad empire. Everything you need to get going is included, its reliable, and setup is usually very easy. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. If your track joints aren't near perfect or if you should want to split that loop into two blocks, you'll double the voltage drop. It is much easier to be ready ahead of time then to have to do some changes afterwards. Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. If you make a complete loop of 100 feet with good track joints, you'll have something like .1 ohm from the transformer to the farthest point, using the rule of thumb that most track is something like 16 AWG wire (.004 ohms per foot) and that there are two 50 foot tracks feeding the farthest point from two directions. --The O Gauge Railroading Primer, by Christopher Ritchie. Interested in southest Pennsylvania railroads; Wow.thanks for all the advice so far, guys!! The two types of cars will connect together just fine, but when side-by-side in a train, they may look a bit odd. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Serious or fatal injuries may result. This will spread the load of your lighted passenger consist across the two transformers. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. By clicking Accept All Cookies, you agree to the storing of cookies on your device to enhance site navigation, analyze site usage, and assist in our marketing efforts. what size lionel transformer do i need. Faq No: 1029 This is a old school approach for sizing cables & transformers or appliances in the electrical trade, & has never let us down. With multiple switches, lights, power supplies and more all concentrated in a small space, color coding and neatness pay off. When you block a person, they can no longer invite you to a private message or post to your profile wall. Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. Here are a couple examples: As you can see, with a bit of experimentation and imagination, numerous different track layouts can be created. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. Price Received. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. Lionel makes a seemingly infinite number of cars to in a variety of colors, types, and road names. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. I have had the same problem. Thanks! Just get a Lionel #12053 Accessory wire set and enough extra wire to connect from the wire set back to your transformer [speaker wire works well]. Past,presentand future. JavaScript is disabled. If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. This conserves the trains' power supply for their needs and makes troubleshooting much easier. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). Effort. This means that they are not exact 1:48 replicas of the real thing but instead are selectively compressed to negotiate the tight turns of regular Lionel track. As Paul said, the power needed doesn't have anything to do with the distance; but the voltage needed does. He directs production at Lionel, the premier model train manufacturer, and he istheformer president of theConrail HistoricalSociety. I recently acquired a beautiful Lionel NH Alco 420. The first is the traditional or classic size, which are the cars that match starter sets. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? Stop it with your hand to full stall, and it goes up to four amps--sixty watts--trying to pull. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. Adding lights to buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories usually do not require anywhere near the amperage demand of the trains themselves. Click here to learn about the Unlimited Membership. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. Do not use this device if water is present. To build on the point you are running MTH trains and therefore will probably go DCS eventually: I would break the track into blocks of about 5 feet in length. Make sure you are getting the right type of power supply for your layout. That could also be the reason the other transformers don't work. Enter your e-mail address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by e-mail. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. Get DIY project ideas and easy-to-follow crafts to help you spruce up your space. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Now, I diconnected that old dinosaur and connected two separate smaller ones which weren't powerful enough to run my Amtrack MTH trains. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. Starter set locomotives can pull up to 12 cars easily, and most can handle up to 20, so building a longer train will not harm your engine. Price Received. They are fun to have. You don't really need a diagram -- you want to pick your interval (some would recommend as often as 3'), drill a hole down through your base, and connect a wire to a bus which runs beneath the layout and connects to your transformer (obviously, you need two wires, one for each powered rail). And that means theyre affordable. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. They are reasonably durable and were popular in their day, which means there are still a lot of them floating around so they tend to be inexpensive. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! If you were to get a ZW 275 you need external short protection. Ive talked more about the Lionel RW and the LW as well. $7.89 delivery Feb 2 - 6. Everyone wanted the two-handled, football-shaped, 275-watt powerhouse that was the ZW. Mike, The size of the transformer is dictated by what you want to run, the more you run the more power you will need. Improve ready-to-run freight cars with a little paint. If your going to run anything more that what came with the set then you should probably upgrade to something a little bigger. Likewise, if you only want to run one train at a time, you can keep other trains on the track by wiring with blocks, and turning off trains that are not in use. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-wattLionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. I have purchased diodes to put into the older transformers to see if this resolves the issue with newer tenders. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . While most of the American Flyer products are re-issues using old Gilbert tooling from the 1950s, the O scale equipment is a combination of new designs and reissues. Apparently there is a difference between old conventional and new conventional power. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. The Lionel Multi-control 1033 is a 90 watt transformer produced from 1948 to 1956. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. I paid $75 + shipping for mine a year ago. If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. (8 lights X 20 watts = 160 watts). In most cases, stranded wire is preferred because the multiple threads provide more conductivity and flexibility. This tool will allow you calculate the KVA that you need. Thanks in advance for any information, Mike. If you fried a wire going to the track it may not be a transformer problem. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Been there, done that. While those locomotives and their sound systems are designed to operate using conventional transformers like your ZW, digital controllers are needed to activate additional features like special sound effects and coupler activation. The Atlas and Bachmann 80 watt transformers, they are one and the same, can be had for around $75.00. Some people even find it fun. http://www.lccuk.org.uk/lccuk Regards Nick Save Reply Quote N Nick12DMC Registered Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. Sell Your Trains Yourself At Train Shows. It is also a good idea to run your accessories off of a separate power supply and wire grid from the trains themselves. I think the RW is a bit better value, but that could just be timing. Not really a how-to-build-a-layout book, but it is a good general introduction to the hobby full of interesting stuff. Unlimited Members, sign in to enjoy sitewide access. Controlled Magnetics has the manufacturing experience, knowledge, and facilities to repair a wide variety of electrical power transformers. I thought you wanted information related to your layout not operations at a trains show. Classic Toy Trains magazine offers information about toy trains operating and collecting, toy train product news and reviews, toy train layout tips, toy train layout designs and track plans, and more. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? This comes primarily from the locomotive(s) but also from lights and other accessories. Some of the variables are obvious, others not so much. You may never use all the amps, but it's usually cheaper to grow into a power supply than to continually upgrade. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). The Lionel 1033 is a great choice for small or medium-sized layouts. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. Frankly, its hard to go wrong with either of these transformers, especially at todays prices. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Our community is FREE to join. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. Daniel Defense firearms, parts and accessories, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=9670, http://www.modeltrainforum.com/album.php?u=2334, 14X16 Switching style [url]http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=8241, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkMHvbckuBLo3pJN1FGE1Gg. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. Lionel has a new 180 watt transformer due out soon that will be a nice upgrade. There is the 12030 Figure-8 set, which along with the track included in your set makes your layout into this: Figure-8s are great because they create a crossing, giving the appearance of a railroad junction, they break up the oval, and the parts to create them are relatively cheap. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a . That means there are lots of them. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). M3103. Join Today! Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. converting a 2-rail freight car to 2-rail with Atlas trucks, My Triple Level Layout -FREEBIE UPDATE- 3/2/23, Successful Open House Upstate (NY) Model Railroaders, FS: Lionel MPC and modern traditional size rolling stock. For a classic setup of a single freight train running on a 48 (or smaller) sheet of plywood, a 90-watt Lionel 1033 or 1044 is an excellent choice. Also, you must have a built-in circuit breaker to prevent a short circuit from causing permanent damage to the power supply or the trains. Big Ed Railroad Tycoon Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. And even when Lionel trains run on AC, they sometimes do some DC trickery. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. I've read that it is good practice to add feeders every 10 sections of track or sothat seems like a lot but I suppose that beats having "dead" spots in the track. You can use bus and feeder wires to more evenly distribute the power over your track. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). If you want a spur track to store an extra car or two, Lionel makes another expansion set [#12044] that does just that: Note that this set includes one switch which is the track section that makes the track diverge onto two separate routes. Problem with Rail King Protocol Sounds reversing unit, My D-190 Back in Action After Move to to NC, Caboose Identification - late era vintage, Continuing Saga Newtown Hardwrare House WIP. www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. We feature Lionel, American Flyer, MTH, Atlas O, Williams Trains, K-Line, Weaver Models, and more. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. As you can see, a lot of great helpers here. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. As the motor takes in more electricity, the arm turns faster and faster. I will make a note here. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Dave: That certainly qualifies, don't forget the anti-gun lobbyist with the picket sign's. I bet they would be great for running lights and unloading the main transformer. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. The smallest wire you can work with will be more than sufficient. Lots of good tips for building a layout from two of the most experienced people in the hobby. If they do, follow their recommendations. These small power supplies are designed to supply a few amps of power. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. --I wish I had some more cars to put behind the engine. Just connect the jumper wires to the same connections on the back of your transformer as your original connections, and make sure that the wires are not crossed.
what size lionel transformer do i need
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